July 29, 2010

  • (UPDATED) Abortion: I Understand Your Passion Behind Your Stance

    I was recently called out by a commenter about my stance on abortion, mentioned in this post. It was my post for the Featured_Grownups topic, “What do you worship, follow, or believe in?” Admittedly, it is a touchy subject, and one I hesitated participating in. Here is the comment in full. I am not linking the commenter, but if you’re curious, you may see the comment and who posted, I have left it there:

    On #2, (Yes, I’m going to go there), I can see what you’re trying to say… but even the biblical definition of the word “quickening” is a bit ambiguous, given the fact that it’s a King James era translation of a concept that wasn’t fully understood at the time. 

     At the time when the Bible was first being published in English people believed-basically as you do- that a baby isn’t a baby until you can feel it, however, God does give us technological advances for a reason; that “clump of cells” begins to move around by 7 weeks (the time, coincidentally, when most abortions occur) so one would assume that if “quickening” was an actual phenomena, it would happen THEN and not  at 16-22 weeks when the mother can feel it.

    You have every right to post your opinions on these things–but please don’t use a mistaken understanding of God’s word and centuries out-dated medical (read: Old Wives) theory to support your stance on abortion.

    To which I responded:

    Having attended nursing school, I am very well aware of the various stages of cell separation and growth. You’re right, I am entitled to my opinion, as you are yours, but please do not presume to tell me I have a mistaken understanding of the Word of God. Perhaps I should expand upon my brief statement, but you have no understanding of the depth to which I have studied both the Bible and medicine. Thanks for your comment. Have a nice day.

    Perhaps I am right believing what I do, perhaps I am wrong. As a Christian I do not believe my stance on abortion (Freedom of Choice) will damn me to Hell. I also do not believe that having an abortion will damn me to Hell. I know, there are a lot of Christians who do believe that, and you are entitled to your beliefs.

    I do understand that we all are very passionate about beliefs we hold strongly, especially when it has to do with the possible snuffing of a potential life. I get it. But where in that does it make it okay for someone to stand in the way of someone else making a decision for themselves, whether it’s a right or wrong decision? Do you walk your own walk or do you think you can walk someone else’s walk? Is it the government’s decision what a woman can do with her body and her fetus? Or is it a decision made with careful thought and prayer? I know, some don’t think and pray at all. That is their choice, as well.

    All I can say is I have three beautiful children whom I could never have aborted. That was my choice. I could never presume to tell another woman how she should think, feel, do, or act. That is each individual’s choice. I can only make choices for myself. Where does the admonishment to not have abortions end? With the bombing of an abortion clinic, or the murder of an already born, adult abortion doctor? That’s crazy, but some feel justified doing that to save the unborn. If abortion is wrong and a sin, that’s just as wrong.

    Most, of course, take the more peaceful approach, picketing abortion clinics with placards of photos of aborted fetuses. It’s an in-your-face approach, for sure, and it does make one pause. Those photos usually show a well developed fetus, but in most cases a woman has an abortion at an earlier stage than that, as “eighty-eight percent of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.”

    I am not sure of the success rate of those picketers to stop someone who wants to have a legal abortion, but I’d say it’s not a very high percentage.

    Would it make any difference in your opinion of my stance to know that when I was 18 years old I had an abortion? I did. I had an affair with a married man. I was stupid and didn’t use protection. I was in no way ready to have a baby, as I was in college and not able to support myself, let alone another life. The “baby daddy” told me in no uncertain terms that he would not be there for me or the baby, should I choose to keep it. I could not bear to bring a baby into this world to give it up to a stranger. I just couldn’t at that time. Maybe I was selfish and immature, but I couldn’t fathom it.

    I know, the very fact that I had an affair…it was wrong. I sinned. I never did it again. I also never had another abortion. I did not take my decision lightly. I had the abortion when I was probably 2 or 3 weeks pregnant. It was horrible, and painful. It was emotionally damaging. Yet and still, if it is someone’s choice, I still believe it is between them and God. I have already asked for forgiveness a long time ago, and I know (even though it is not a license to sin) that the blood of Christ covers all.

    Do you think I will burn in Hell?

    Do you believe in God’s grace, no matter what the circumstances of a person’s sin?


    The commenter just left me more:

    So much the worse for you that having such knowledge at your fingertips you misuse and manipulate it to fit a conclusion you don’t want to drop.
    Producing credentials (i.e. nursing school, in this case) is usually meant to make the argument drop, but I don’t see how it’s particularly relevant here–I’m not going to turn this into a flame war, but the “gathering together” of Christians, as you mentioned, isn’t always just church or other fellowship: Sometimes, it’s the iron-sharpening-iron process of rooting out what heresies we hold on to, the duty of brothers and sisters in Christ to help each other find the truth.
    I do not doubt your study of the Bible OR your understanding of human biology, just your reasoning on this subject.
    Thank you for your time.

    My response:

    If I thought your rebuke was made in Christian love and kindness maybe I would take it differently. Heresy? Wow. Dear girl, I am far from a heretic. As you try to assert your spiritual superiority, remember that you are human and imperfect just as the rest of us. Were your comments made to make me drop the subject? Won’t happen. Run along. There will be no flames, I won’t comment you again.

    What do you think, readers? What would your response have been?

Comments (31)

  • Lots of looks, but no one wants to comment. LOL, that’s okay, I understand.

  • Complicated & Not so Complicated if as a Christian we remove the I & me.

    Let me share this…one time in a wonderful time of prayer I knew God was very close….I found myself asking if He would show me a part of Heaven…& He did.  What I saw was miles & miles of beautiful part of the city full of pretty & happy babies, the aborted ones. He whispered to me “I meant so much more for them each & everyone of them I had plans for, they weren’t wanted but I want them” I found myself waling on the inside, for the loss but I knew they were loved.

    My feelings are this, I wouldn’t put up with my friend abusing her kids one way or another….I would be their to help, love & find a better way.

  • nope you’re not going to burn in hell.  God’s grace is sufficent, Messiah paid the price for all sin.  Mine, yours, and the guy sitting across from me cussing at his ‘puter.  If he didn’t then we’d all be burning in hell.

  • Nope, I don’t believe that you’re going to burn in hell. God’s grace is sufficient, and is there for all who want it. <3 I actually share the same viewpoint as you… just because it’s not a choice that I would make does not mean that I am in any position to judge the person next to me. I understand that it is a sin, but I am not their maker. God loves all, and all will be worked out through Him. 

  • @Made2sing4Jesus - Doesn’t God know the end before the beginning? How could He have plans for those He knew would not be brought upon this earth? Just asking what you think about that?

  • PS forgot to answer your question burning in hell is for the ppl who denounce Christ… sad so much greek myth. gets into Christian thinking.

    Do you believe in God’s grace, no matter what the circumstances of a person’s sin?

    His grace is HUGE!!! LOL
    I think we move out of Grace when we don’t change from our sin path, always makes me think of the woman adulteress.

  • @CynaraJane - it is confusing, but  it is what He said…., how He works all that out is above my pay grade.
     & knowing what we are going to do with our will doesn’t seem to stop Him from making plans. We can see this so many times…

    I know how often He sends “messages” to guide my will… but we only see in part.

  • @apennieformythoughts - God’s grace is sufficient. What if I told you that God doesn’t love all? What about the verse that says, “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”? (Romans 9:13) Do you think that is a special circumstance, or is it that He only loves His own?

  • @Made2sing4Jesus - Well put. And He has spoken to me, too.

  • @CynaraJane - Um, well… I hadn’t thought of that! I don’t believe that God loves only His own, I believe that His heart cries for all the lost. I don’t know :-/. 

  • Ya know, it took me awhile to treasure the image He gave me…when I asked for a look at  Heaven such a place was the last thing I could have thought of.

  • @apennieformythoughts -   What Jane said here is how I think of it, but we must Remember that even in the way that God Hates He does not sin…
    We on the other hand !!, I have a hard time imagining any human has done this,EVER.

  • @apennieformythoughts - You’re right, it isn’t God’s will that any be lost. I personally believe He hates some, and that may be the ones who have utterly, eternally, and irrevocably turned their backs on Him. It happens. I dunno, though, it’s just my opinion.

  • I agree with you. It is that person’s individual choice.  I was offered an abortion when I was 16, by my mother, and I refused. It just isn’t for me. However, I can see where it might be. If I were raped and a pregnancy resulted? Yep. If it was medical shown that the baby I was carrying would have zero quality of life, mentally and physically? Probably….

    You aren’t doomed to hell. Those that think you are? Those are the people I mentioned that were going to be very surprised when (and if) they make it.

  • @BubblysLife - Aren’t you glad you had a choice? What if the government mandated that anyone who was pregnant under the age of 18 had to have an abortion? To me giving the government the power to make my personal decisions is frightening. I don’t want them telling me what I can or can’t do. And my spiritual/religious beliefs are none of their business, either. Yes, I think there will be quite a few people in shock when they pass on…

  • I wouldn’t even begin to denounce anyone on such a personal thing, and no, I don’t think you are going to burn in hell!  Yes, I believe in God’s grace, wholeheartedly! 

    Kathi

  • @Still_groovy - Thank you, Kathi. God’s grace is a wonderful gift. I am very thankful for it!

  • My comments would not have been very Christian and therefore will not be posted here  

  • Wow.  There are all kinds of Christians, aren’t there?   I am a child of God myself.  But I do believe every woman has a right to make her own decision.  God gave us free will.  Sure, I wish everyone who wanted an abortion would find the support they need and let the baby come to full term so it could be adopted.  But that would be in a perfect world, and this world is so far from perfect.  We all are far from perfect.  Each and every situation is different.  I personally don’t think you’re going to hell.  Maybe I’m going to hell for what I believe, but I’m not going to know until I meet God face to face.  I’m sure we’ll have a lot to talk about.  In the meantime, I guess I’ll just try to love others as best I can, as I believe God would do, as Jesus DID do.

  • @jo63psalm - It seems so – that is, all kinds of Christians. I remember when I was a young Christian and would defend my dogmatic beliefs till the bitter end…or until the ire stopped welling in my throat. As I matured, things changed, and though I believe what I believe, I don’t think others are heretics for not believing exactly as I do. I don’t think you’re going to hell, either. Neither do I think my commenter is going to hell. I think she really believes she is doing her Christian duty. Sometimes zeal like that is necessary, sometimes they are preaching to the choir, but they don’t even realize it. I pray for her that as she grows in Christ’s love, she grows to understand exactly what you’ve said…that she needs to love others as best she can, as God would do and as Jesus did. 

  • lisa, you are a beautiful person with a beautiful soul. for what it is worth, i dont think youre going to burn in hell.  love you.  thanks for sharing such a personal story.

  • Pro-life or pro-choice, very controversial. I always stay away from this debate because people always get very riled up and we can argue till the cows come home and people are just gonna believe in what they believe. And no, I don’t think you are gonna burn in hell.

  • No, I know you aren’t going to hell…

  • There’s this big beam in my eye that prevents me from seeing other people’s faults. lol. You already know what my response would have been. Most likely just silence. What I do know is that you are a wonderful person and a person of real faith. Don’t take this personal attack too serious.

  • @bipolori - Thank you, Lori. I love you! 

  • @icepearlz - Very true! It’s a no-win argument, really. Thank you. <3

  • @Xcholo4u - Silence, uh huh…

    Eh, I’m not taking it too seriously…anymore. It did get me a little fired up at the time, but I’ve calmed down. I have tomorrow off, it’s been a long work week. I think the commenter caught me at a not so opportune moment.

    That big beam in your eye? I think I have a matching one over here in mine. No, I am sure of it.

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